According to some ignorant people (that assume the average Italian to look like Hollywood stereotypes) and trolls with obscure agendas, Anita Caprioli is "very white looking" (a.k.a not swarthy/borderline Euro) to be an ethnic Italian, lol. I have been accused of being a nordicist before when I say people like her are way more common in Italy than those MENA swarthy types (nothing against them, but they don't represent the average Italian).
No, she is Southern European. No Italian population clusters with Swedes, Danes or Norwegians. And no Italian needs to be "affirmed" by Nordics to get our European card.
I think Italian Anthro reviewed the article linked below when it was published in 2016. It is the most comprehensive study in terms of Genome Sample within Italy and comparisons outside of Italy. 3 clear Italian CLusters form, one Southern Italian-Sicily, 2) Central Italian and 3) Northern Italian. All 3 cluster right next to each other. Only Sardinia clusters alone. Outside of Italy, Sicily-Southern Italy and Central Italy cluster with Greeks, Northern Italians closest cluster is Spanish and French, not "Nordics". If you look who is the next closest cluster to Southern Italians, it is Cypriots, but it is a clear break. Then you get to MENA populations. See Figure 2.
Unknown, I'm aware of the Italian peninsula/Sardinian genetics,and yes, Italians don't need the approval of Nordics, just commented that to some people the average Italian looks like the Hollywood stereotypes: borderline Euro/MENA looking. Thanks!
Latinus: Ok, my bad if I misconstrued your statement.
Modern Italians have significant ancestry from the Neolithic farming civilizations. No greater example of that is Otzi the Icemen, who based on DNA evidence had brown eyes, brown hair, skin tone that would fit right into the spectrum of Modern Italia. He had a nice set of chest hair and his Haplogroups were G2a an Maternal was K something which is no longer prevalent in modern Europeans. The Steppe migrations that brought Indo European languages from the Yamnaya culture, which ranged from the Northern Danube in modern Ukraine to the Southern Danube in the Northern Balkans. The Yamnaya culture split into four major sub-groups, a Baltic-Slavic one, a Germanic-Nordic one a Celtic one that went North of the Alps and spread into France (then Gaul) and Spain and the Italic one that came into Italy on the Southern migration crossing the balkans and entering through what is modern Slovenia and Croatia. The Latins settled in Latium and the Latin language did unite the Italian peninsula, Italia btw referred to tribes south of Rome and was later applied to all of Italy. Estruscans, not an Indo European people were there already as were many, many other tribes. So the Latini and Latin being a language sophisticated enough to unite peoples by tongue, but Neolithic peoples already had formed stable communities in all of Italy going back to 7,000 BC. So to the connection with French and Spaniards with Northern Italians is due to Gauls-Celts being in the North West corner of Italy and Po Valley and when they were Latinized, those peoples became a significant part of the genetic makeup of the Regions North of the Po Valley.
Nordic Haplogroup I1 has never been dominate anywhere in Italy and really was only introduced when various Germanic tribes came down into Italy in 5th century.
The post above was by me. I did not say Southern Italians and Sicily clusters with Cypriots. Sazzini et al. (2016) in Figure 2 is what I was referring to. You can see 4 well defined Itlian Clusters that overlap and are set right next to each other. 1) Sardinia cluster, 2) Sicily-Southern Italian Cluster, 3) Central Italian Cluster and 4) Northern Italian cluster. Interestingly, the Central Italian cluster is not different from either the North or the South, but somewhat closer to the Southern-Sicilian Cluster. See Figure 2. A review of Figure 2 will indicate what I was referring to. Greeks cluster right on side of of Sicily-Southern Italy and Central Italy. The Spanish and French cluster right next to Northern Italian Cluster. There is a break in the cluster and Cypriots are intermediate between Sicily-Southern Italy and then a break and another gap in the data and then you see populations from the Levant, West-Asia-Caucus cluster together
https://www.nature.com/articles/srep32513
So in summary, Italians are all Southern Europeans. No Italian sample clusters with England, Scotland or Scandinavia nor does Sicily-Southern Italy cluster with anyone other than Greeks, who in many ways have similar admixture ratios from the same source populations as Italians.
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Stunning
According to some ignorant people (that assume the average Italian to look like Hollywood stereotypes) and trolls with obscure agendas, Anita Caprioli is "very white looking" (a.k.a not swarthy/borderline Euro) to be an ethnic Italian, lol. I have been accused of being a nordicist before when I say people like her are way more common in Italy than those MENA swarthy types (nothing against them, but they don't represent the average Italian).
No, she is Southern European. No Italian population clusters with Swedes, Danes or Norwegians. And no Italian needs to be "affirmed" by Nordics to get our European card.
I think Italian Anthro reviewed the article linked below when it was published in 2016. It is the most comprehensive study in terms of Genome Sample within Italy and comparisons outside of Italy. 3 clear Italian CLusters form, one Southern Italian-Sicily, 2) Central Italian and 3) Northern Italian. All 3 cluster right next to each other. Only Sardinia clusters alone. Outside of Italy, Sicily-Southern Italy and Central Italy cluster with Greeks, Northern Italians closest cluster is Spanish and French, not "Nordics". If you look who is the next closest cluster to Southern Italians, it is Cypriots, but it is a clear break. Then you get to MENA populations. See Figure 2.
https://www.nature.com/articles/srep32513
Unknown, I'm aware of the Italian peninsula/Sardinian genetics,and yes, Italians don't need the approval of Nordics, just commented that to some people the average Italian looks like the Hollywood stereotypes: borderline Euro/MENA looking.
Thanks!
Latinus: Ok, my bad if I misconstrued your statement.
Modern Italians have significant ancestry from the Neolithic farming civilizations. No greater example of that is Otzi the Icemen, who based on DNA evidence had brown eyes, brown hair, skin tone that would fit right into the spectrum of Modern Italia. He had a nice set of chest hair and his Haplogroups were G2a an Maternal was K something which is no longer prevalent in modern Europeans. The Steppe migrations that brought Indo European languages from the Yamnaya culture, which ranged from the Northern Danube in modern Ukraine to the Southern Danube in the Northern Balkans. The Yamnaya culture split into four major sub-groups, a Baltic-Slavic one, a Germanic-Nordic one a Celtic one that went North of the Alps and spread into France (then Gaul) and Spain and the Italic one that came into Italy on the Southern migration crossing the balkans and entering through what is modern Slovenia and Croatia. The Latins settled in Latium and the Latin language did unite the Italian peninsula, Italia btw referred to tribes south of Rome and was later applied to all of Italy. Estruscans, not an Indo European people were there already as were many, many other tribes. So the Latini and Latin being a language sophisticated enough to unite peoples by tongue, but Neolithic peoples already had formed stable communities in all of Italy going back to 7,000 BC. So to the connection with French and Spaniards with Northern Italians is due to Gauls-Celts being in the North West corner of Italy and Po Valley and when they were Latinized, those peoples became a significant part of the genetic makeup of the Regions North of the Po Valley.
Nordic Haplogroup I1 has never been dominate anywhere in Italy and really was only introduced when various Germanic tribes came down into Italy in 5th century.
The Southern Italians DO NOT HAVE ANY TYPE OF RELATIONSHIP WITH THE CYPRIOTS and that page does not prove any evidence.
Unknown:
The post above was by me. I did not say Southern Italians and Sicily clusters with Cypriots. Sazzini et al. (2016) in Figure 2 is what I was referring to. You can see 4 well defined Itlian Clusters that overlap and are set right next to each other. 1) Sardinia cluster, 2) Sicily-Southern Italian Cluster, 3) Central Italian Cluster and 4) Northern Italian cluster. Interestingly, the Central Italian cluster is not different from either the North or the South, but somewhat closer to the Southern-Sicilian Cluster. See Figure 2. A review of Figure 2 will indicate what I was referring to. Greeks cluster right on side of of Sicily-Southern Italy and Central Italy. The Spanish and French cluster right next to Northern Italian Cluster. There is a break in the cluster and Cypriots are intermediate between Sicily-Southern Italy and then a break and another gap in the data and then you see populations from the Levant, West-Asia-Caucus cluster together
https://www.nature.com/articles/srep32513
So in summary, Italians are all Southern Europeans. No Italian sample clusters with England, Scotland or Scandinavia nor does Sicily-Southern Italy cluster with anyone other than Greeks, who in many ways have similar admixture ratios from the same source populations as Italians.
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